8th Edition 40K Thousand Sons
It's taken me a while to get around to this, even though the reveal (and leak!) has been up for a few days now. Thousand Sons were a project asked for by my half-dozen twitter readers, and so I wanted to do them justice.
So... are the Sons of Prospero any good in 8th edition?
The answer is... hey are solid. Well balanced. I think.
We've had the rubric Marines for some time now, and I'll discuss them later. The leaks we've had, and the reveal over at Warhammer Community confirm, Magnus the Reds stats and Ahriman's abilities. Since these two are the aces of the 1K Sons, we'll start here.
As you can imagine, he is a beast. His Gaze of Magnus has turned from a D-strength beam to a better version of smite, doing d6 as opposed to d3 Mortal Wounds, and 2d6 on a roll 10 or more. As he also gets a +2 to Psychic casting, he has a decent chance of getting that 2d6 damage, and with some lucky rolls will basically just remove models from the table.
He can cast three times, which we can assume is the cap. If anything came along (like Eldrad) who could cast more, then Chaos players would riot more than they already do!
He's quick, tough, and at 21 Power levels relatively cheap. That's roughly equivalent to a Land Raider... and since he buffs his 1K Sons around him with re-rolling 1s on To Hit and Invulnerable Saves, he's far more versatile.
A good pick, and much less awkward to use on the table top... if a little toned down from what he was in 7th Edition.
A discount and more fragile Magnus, he can cast three powers per phase. He just has far more of a glass jaw than Magnus, as you would expect.
However... he's cheap. At 8 Power Levels he's about the same as a Rubric Marine unit, and actually not that much less able to take a beating. Make sure you pop him on a disc so he can zip around as the psyker gun boat he should be.
Expect to see him popping up more, as the "standard" HQ pick for 1K Sons.
Are about as you'd expect. They essentially perform the same function as my current 7th Edition vanilla sorcerers, casting two powers a turn.
They've lost their mini-orbital bombardment ability, but now buff their buddies around them with re-rolling invulnerable saves of 1. Ahriman has this too, and I'm not sure how good this will be in conjunction with the Rubricae All is Dust rule.
If Ahriman is a discount Magnus, these guys are now just a discount Ahriman. A bit of a whimper considering what they used to be...
The 1K Sons chaff unit is a little bit buffed in this edition, but I can only think one case where's I'd actually buy them.
Clocking in a 4 Power levels for 10, they certainly bulk out your numbers. They hit a little harder now, as it's just a flat 3+ To Hit in close combat as opposed to look up tables. Their basic close combat weapon also carries a rend on it, but you can swap this out for a standard chainsword and autopistol set up.
They have an armour save of 6+... which you'll probably never use, because they have an Invulnerable save of 5+. Remember most of the HQ choices allow you to re-roll Invulnerable rolls of 1 for Thousand Sons key word units, which these guys have. That makes them tougher than the average cultist.
As chaff they look good, and are going to put some serious hurt on Characters with special weapons. On average you're going to get 14 hits in, even without re-rolls, and the rends on top of that will even have Primaris Marines sweating.
As a unit, they're really good. I just don't like having bird/goat/men in my power armoured Egyptian army. That said, with the new Rend buff to their basic weapons, you can save yourself some time and money on magnetising your models, and collect a really solid Age of Sigmar army at the same time as your 40K.
In fact I might do that...
Keep that idea stored for now..
Ouch.
Okay, they're expensive, but only 1 Power Level less than the equivalent wound count of Rubricae. They bring roughly the same level of firepower too, with their combi-bolters spitting out two shots at 24-inches, or 4 at 12!
They rock the All is Dust rule too, giving them a +1 to armour saves against weapons with 1 damage. This could theoretically bring their save down to 1+, but I'm assuming there's a rule somewhere that says 2+ is the minimum.
Either way, they are tough, most likely have a fully fledged psyker helping them out, and a unit of these teleporting at 9-inches away is going to hurt badly. That's 16 good Rending shots to the enemy's tenders. Plus whatever psychic shenanigans you can bring to bear!
Rubric Marines
Just because I have it, here are the Rubricae again.
I'm a little annoyed at what they've done to the Sorcerer now. I've seen some Grey Knight unit leaks, and they can all cast Smite as well as a normal psyker can. Some units even have better versions of it. So I'm a little miffed this follower of the God of Magic gets a weaker version of Smite.
A tiny irritation, but one I'm sure will rankle other 1K Sons collectors.
Okay, so this is a little difficult to explain. The 1K Sons just ha new release in Christmas last year, so we're unlikely to see brand new models coming out for them any time soon. Whilst that may seem like a bad thing, this edition change means a lot of models (*cough*Space Marines*cough*) are going to become redundant.
There's a lot of uncertainty in buying that Assault Marine squad now, as you don't know how much longer they'll be supported. By all means, buy and paint the models you like. But just be aware that they may not be rules supported in the near future... or even worse have better, new sculpts released a week after you buy them!
1K Sons are in a good position here. They're not likely to get new modes any time soon, so you can rest assured that what you buy now will still be valid for years to come.
And let's face it they're Chaos Space Marines. They'll probably be the same models for the next decade or two.
The list the 1K Sons get to choose from is called the Dark Hereticus Discpline. I'm sure I've seen the leak somewhere, but I can't find it and I'm sick of scrolling through advert-chugged "hobby news" sites to find them. I do remember being underwhelmed by them, but until I have concrete evidence, let's just assume the worst, and that the 1K Sons will just be smiting everything to death.
And there's nothing wrong with that!
Thanks for reading.
If you liked what you saw, and you want to help out, please leave a comment. Sharing this with your friends, and following me on Twitter, Facebook or Google+ would also be hugely appreciated.
If you have anything you want me to look at, let me know in the comments below. I'll probably be able to write an article about that topic within a day!
So... are the Sons of Prospero any good in 8th edition?
The answer is... hey are solid. Well balanced. I think.
We've had the rubric Marines for some time now, and I'll discuss them later. The leaks we've had, and the reveal over at Warhammer Community confirm, Magnus the Reds stats and Ahriman's abilities. Since these two are the aces of the 1K Sons, we'll start here.
Magnus the Red
 |
| From Miniwars.eu |
As you can imagine, he is a beast. His Gaze of Magnus has turned from a D-strength beam to a better version of smite, doing d6 as opposed to d3 Mortal Wounds, and 2d6 on a roll 10 or more. As he also gets a +2 to Psychic casting, he has a decent chance of getting that 2d6 damage, and with some lucky rolls will basically just remove models from the table.
He can cast three times, which we can assume is the cap. If anything came along (like Eldrad) who could cast more, then Chaos players would riot more than they already do!
He's quick, tough, and at 21 Power levels relatively cheap. That's roughly equivalent to a Land Raider... and since he buffs his 1K Sons around him with re-rolling 1s on To Hit and Invulnerable Saves, he's far more versatile.
A good pick, and much less awkward to use on the table top... if a little toned down from what he was in 7th Edition.
Ahriman
 |
| From Miniwars.eu |
A discount and more fragile Magnus, he can cast three powers per phase. He just has far more of a glass jaw than Magnus, as you would expect.
However... he's cheap. At 8 Power Levels he's about the same as a Rubric Marine unit, and actually not that much less able to take a beating. Make sure you pop him on a disc so he can zip around as the psyker gun boat he should be.
Expect to see him popping up more, as the "standard" HQ pick for 1K Sons.
Exalted Sorcerers
 |
| From Miniwars.eu |
Are about as you'd expect. They essentially perform the same function as my current 7th Edition vanilla sorcerers, casting two powers a turn.
They've lost their mini-orbital bombardment ability, but now buff their buddies around them with re-rolling invulnerable saves of 1. Ahriman has this too, and I'm not sure how good this will be in conjunction with the Rubricae All is Dust rule.
If Ahriman is a discount Magnus, these guys are now just a discount Ahriman. A bit of a whimper considering what they used to be...
Tzaangors
 |
| From Miniwars.eu |
The 1K Sons chaff unit is a little bit buffed in this edition, but I can only think one case where's I'd actually buy them.
Clocking in a 4 Power levels for 10, they certainly bulk out your numbers. They hit a little harder now, as it's just a flat 3+ To Hit in close combat as opposed to look up tables. Their basic close combat weapon also carries a rend on it, but you can swap this out for a standard chainsword and autopistol set up.
They have an armour save of 6+... which you'll probably never use, because they have an Invulnerable save of 5+. Remember most of the HQ choices allow you to re-roll Invulnerable rolls of 1 for Thousand Sons key word units, which these guys have. That makes them tougher than the average cultist.
As chaff they look good, and are going to put some serious hurt on Characters with special weapons. On average you're going to get 14 hits in, even without re-rolls, and the rends on top of that will even have Primaris Marines sweating.
As a unit, they're really good. I just don't like having bird/goat/men in my power armoured Egyptian army. That said, with the new Rend buff to their basic weapons, you can save yourself some time and money on magnetising your models, and collect a really solid Age of Sigmar army at the same time as your 40K.
In fact I might do that...
Keep that idea stored for now..
Scarab Occult Terminators
 |
| From Warhammer Community |
Ouch.
Okay, they're expensive, but only 1 Power Level less than the equivalent wound count of Rubricae. They bring roughly the same level of firepower too, with their combi-bolters spitting out two shots at 24-inches, or 4 at 12!
They rock the All is Dust rule too, giving them a +1 to armour saves against weapons with 1 damage. This could theoretically bring their save down to 1+, but I'm assuming there's a rule somewhere that says 2+ is the minimum.
Either way, they are tough, most likely have a fully fledged psyker helping them out, and a unit of these teleporting at 9-inches away is going to hurt badly. That's 16 good Rending shots to the enemy's tenders. Plus whatever psychic shenanigans you can bring to bear!
Rubric Marines
Just because I have it, here are the Rubricae again.
I'm a little annoyed at what they've done to the Sorcerer now. I've seen some Grey Knight unit leaks, and they can all cast Smite as well as a normal psyker can. Some units even have better versions of it. So I'm a little miffed this follower of the God of Magic gets a weaker version of Smite.
A tiny irritation, but one I'm sure will rankle other 1K Sons collectors.
New Model Immunity
Okay, so this is a little difficult to explain. The 1K Sons just ha new release in Christmas last year, so we're unlikely to see brand new models coming out for them any time soon. Whilst that may seem like a bad thing, this edition change means a lot of models (*cough*Space Marines*cough*) are going to become redundant.
There's a lot of uncertainty in buying that Assault Marine squad now, as you don't know how much longer they'll be supported. By all means, buy and paint the models you like. But just be aware that they may not be rules supported in the near future... or even worse have better, new sculpts released a week after you buy them!
1K Sons are in a good position here. They're not likely to get new modes any time soon, so you can rest assured that what you buy now will still be valid for years to come.
And let's face it they're Chaos Space Marines. They'll probably be the same models for the next decade or two.
A word on Psychic Powers
The list the 1K Sons get to choose from is called the Dark Hereticus Discpline. I'm sure I've seen the leak somewhere, but I can't find it and I'm sick of scrolling through advert-chugged "hobby news" sites to find them. I do remember being underwhelmed by them, but until I have concrete evidence, let's just assume the worst, and that the 1K Sons will just be smiting everything to death.
And there's nothing wrong with that!
Until next time!
Thanks for reading.
If you liked what you saw, and you want to help out, please leave a comment. Sharing this with your friends, and following me on Twitter, Facebook or Google+ would also be hugely appreciated.
If you have anything you want me to look at, let me know in the comments below. I'll probably be able to write an article about that topic within a day!
Thanks as always for a well thought out article
ReplyDeleteWanted to offer my humble opinion and insights.
While Magnus offers buffs to all units within 9", Ahriman and Exalteds offer their buff to Infantry only within 6.
Do they lose the ability to receive the benefit of their own buff when on a disc because they lose the Infantry keyword word in place of deamon? RAW it looks that way though hope is addressed.
Rerolls to 1s on the invuln due to character buffs should work fine with All is Dust. AiD offers the buff to saving throws and it works with the reroll to one's.
Also.while a 1 always fails it is possible to buff armor save below 2 with cover saves, etc and would apply to rend modifiers. Thus if I have a 1 save I still fail on a 1 but a -1 ap weapon now makes my 1 save a 2 save, and so on.
I was pissed at first at not having any distinct rules for the psychic phase or even unique spells but after thinking about it with decurion style rules and big spell selection gone i kept looking for distinct rules or shenanigans to replace it. In 8th our distinction in being psychically gifted comes across as sheer volume of smiters and deniers, not special rules or even unique lore.
Maybe we get unique lore and artifacts in an updated dex but for now smiling and dark hereticus is what we got.
They are not bad actually, an aimable smite, move shenanigans and divination buffs to hit in all phases they are quite good and diverse, just not the sexy we hoped for.
I plan on spamming icons of flame and using lots of Tzaangors as screens to the mortal wounds my opponent has access to.
Keep em coming teach and thanks!
To be honest I haven't confirmed yet that characters can gain their own buffs yet. Thinking of Rites of War for the Space Marine captains, that would mean they'd never miss!
DeleteEither way, thanks for the comment. It's hard to overstate the awesomeness of someone not just leaving a comment, but taking the time to write a long one with good points and ideas. Thanks!
True on character buffs, we do need confirmation and I was not thinking how it effects other armies that might be too powerful. Seemed natural that they would benefit from it since they give it though maybe not. Maybe they only get it if they are in another HQs aura. On Bolter and Chain sword there are some good battle reports for 8th using 1k sons. In the chaos space marine section, Brotherhood of Dust thread. Thanks again. Scott
DeleteBattle report: Vs Eldar.
ReplyDeleteI ran Magnus, ahriman, 1 exalt sorc on disc, 2 5 man rubrics.
He ran Eldrad, a hemlock fighter, 3 warlocks in 3 small units with the cannons, and 2 walkers.
Turn 1 his impressive amount of weaponry took out my poorly positioned ahriman [i wanted to bait shots to avoud losing magnus, but should have used my exalted sorceror instead. His hemlock removed two of the rubrics from 1 squad, and a poor roll on battle shock took another, but he couldn't smite me through my wall of denial.
My turn 1 I advanced, set the exalted sorcerer and the remainder of the marine squad to work on the hemlock, then advanced magnus, who lost his chance to charge eldrad due to the boxcar denial versus warptime. Sites are a unit of his and 5 of 6 versus the hemlock.
Turn 2 he unleashed everything versus magnus. The smite wounds from 1 successful cast from eldrad did 1 wound, and magnus and the sorcerors denied everything the eldrad tried to cast otherwise. Some lucky shooting and unlucky saves later, magnus ends the turn 8 wounds down total.
On my turn I used smite to clear the hemlock fighter and injure eldrad, then charged magnus. Flying charges make me want to run lords of change. The charge attacks destroyed eldrad, created a chaos spawn, and left magnus tearing up the bulk of the eldar army so the player picked it up, not wanting to face 4 smite plus with only one deny roll.
All in all, I liked it. I think the transport is probably worth it for 10 man rubrics with flamers now, so I'll test that next week.
Thanks for this! I've uploaded the battle report as its own post so everyone can see it!
Delete